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OLDPHARTBSA

Nobody Special
Articles Posted: 98  Links Seeded: 488
Member Since: 9/2008  Last Seen: 12/23/2011

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The Breakdown of Capitalism and the fight for Socialism in the United States

Seeded on Mon Sep 6, 2010 9:56 PM EDT
Read ArticleArticle Source: World Socialist Web Site
politics, obama, economy, congress, president, wall-street, recession, depression, banks, poverty, collapse, main-street
Seeded by OldPhartbsa
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"For eighteen months unemployment has been spreading poverty and acute suffering through industrial and agricultural areas alike. No one yet knows when the present economic disaster will be brought to an end. The illusory years have given way to fearful economic insecurity and to widespread despair. These eighteen months have revealed the hypocrisy of the President's pledge of cooperation toward the attainment of economic security. The Administration's efforts to attain economic security have consisted of attempts to minimize the seriousness of the depression, of bold assurances that steps which would restore prosperity were about to be taken, and of a woefully unsuccessful program to stimulate private or local agencies to undertake tasks which the Administration was determined to shirk."

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  • Public Discussion (13)
OldPhartbsa

COH, Please.

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Mon Sep 6, 2010 9:56 PM EDT
OldPhartbsa

Want a real shocker, read who made that quote and when.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Mon Sep 6, 2010 9:57 PM EDT
JACK DEATH

It really does not matter who, let alone who really gives a flying fick?

  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Mon Sep 6, 2010 10:17 PM EDT
TiG.

Jack

Why would you not care? Read the seeded article ... this is a profoundly important topic?

  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 12:01 AM EDT
TiG.

(strike ending ? and replace with !)

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 12:17 AM EDT
Reply
msblkwidow

People, we're not stupid. We all know the culprits who participated in almost bringing this country to a screeching halt. It was the republicans. George Bush was in office.

I refuse to listen to anyone who claims it is Obama's fault.

If the Bush and his administration failed to recognize the state of the economy before September 2008, then that means that the republicans certainly should not regain any seats. They were sleep at the switch.

I don't like fear-mongers. I believe in the Almighty God.

  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Mon Sep 6, 2010 11:59 PM EDT
OldPhartbsa

I admit that Bush's administration should have done more to wake congress up, the many pleas to rein in Fannie and Freddie over the loan standards that were encouraged were staunchly ignored.

While Bush's administration is to blame, also to blame are the democrats in the House and Senate that removed the laws put into place as a result of the great depression. These laws prevented banks from being investment houses, double dealing against the public. Congress also pushed for home mortgages to those that traditionally wouldn't have qualified. This resulted in the new "improved" mortgage terms, variable interest, NINJA, Liar Loans etc.

This is not a one party or one individual cause. This was created by Congress, both parties, and the blame lays upon the "Ruling Elite". May they all swing.

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 4:26 AM EDT
Reply
TiG.

Old

Another interesting aspect of the seeded article is the useful description of socialism it embodies. One of the most defining characteristics of socialism is the rejection of capitalism. Most people view socialism as 'statism' - the belief that federal government should exercise more control over society to 'make if more fair'.

Socialism is more properly anti-capitalism. Socialism is an alternative to capitalism. It is not big government but rather the end of profit by capitalists largely be public ownership of the means of production (capital, equipment, raw material, facilities, land).

It would be nice if we could all find consistent meaning in the terms we use. Most of the time I have to laugh at arguments based upon different understandings of a term.

_____________

I do see capitalism showing not only its dark side but also projecting some critical weaknesses. So what does this mean? Is capitalism actually starting to self-destruct (as Marx predicted)? Will we see the worldwide collapse of capitalism and a revolutionary uprising of worker-owned-and-operated businesses operating in a direct democracy? Is the writing on the wall? Is there no way to stabilize our system and make it work well for all?

(That should be enough to stimulate the discussion.) :)

  • 4 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 12:00 AM EDT
King of Newsvine

It does seem that: not only are capitalism's weaknesses showing, but that there's more and more outrage against wall street and carperbagging corporations. Very much outrage from all walks of life. But there is also civil war type thinking brewing too, between: conservative white rural pro-life right-wing christian homophobes against urban liberal democrat pro-choice /trans/bi/gay multiethnic progressives. In my mind, the conservative vs progressive conflict overrides everything else, in terms of having a bogieman to aim your outrage at..

The class gap will have to widen farther between the haves and have nots to get to the point that they will do anything to fundamentally change corporations/government. Soon enough, there won't be enough money to cover welfare and unemployment as the economy keeps stagnating. When your brother or sister, or your neighbor need to move in with you because they'll be on the street otherwise, but you can't afford to support them, and there aren't enough employed people paying taxes to pay enough into welfare to support them, that unraveling could leave us with less choices.

It could also leave us weak as a nation, and more susceptible to any opportunistic power that might take us down and take us over. (Take control of the powergrid and internet and phones, and news, finally the government and declare sharia law...or martial law...or institute a Christian Theocracy).

Even though government corporations and politics look like a big mess, I can see it easily getting a whole lot worse...a quantum-leap-off-a-cliff lot worse.

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 12:46 AM EDT
OldPhartbsa

Capitalism's core weakness is the premise of "Caveat Emptor", let the buyer beware.

Government's responsibility is to properly regulate business and establish standards that can be used by the public to remove doubts as to safety, fitness for use, and open market pricing. Public judgement standards then focus on quality, workmanship and perceived value.

Congress removed regulation, then mandated the creation of a new market--one that the free market would not create--in expanding home ownership. Congress then used taxpayer dollars to fund this false market, and continues to do so with more and more taxpayer dollars, because no one in their right mind would invest in it.

To create the investment community willing to fund these market mutants, Congress not only allowed, they encouraged the creation of exotic loans and investment vehicles. The rise of Credit Default Swaps, CDO's and all the other alpha named vehicles went purposefully unregulated and remain extremely so--in spite of recent "financial overhaul".

Our government operates under the Keynesian Theocracy. This belief system permeates government. Like any Theocracy small doses wouldn't normally cause much harm. However, extremes create Jonestown, beheadings, stonings, etc. We have had seventy odd years of Keynesian Theocracy piling on top of previous piles.

At this point, the world has become hesitant to place further investment in the United States Treasury. The world is beginning the process to replace the dollar as the international unit of trade, and progress will move swiftly. When there are insufficient buyers of the Treasury Notes, they are purchased by the Federal Reserve (using the national credit card to pay the national mortgage) and now there is talk that the Federal Reserve is beginning to eye private 401-k and pension accounts to "offer safer investments".

What many don't realize is that we are truely on the brink of economic and social collapse. A collapse that has been created by terrible governmental policy going back decades.

We have money created by a private bank, back by nothing but paper, sold at interest to us, the taxpayers, and the only thing keeping it going at the moment is sheer faith and public inertia.

Currently, adding the National Debt and the unfunded National Liabilites of Social Security, Prescripition Drugs and Medicare we are in the hole for $111.7 TRILLION dollars. Add on top of that the estimated $130 Trillion of so-called hedge funds, mortgage scams, etc. Then add in the value of all the "toxic assets" that still remain on the banking books in spite of the bull$hit we were told with Bushes bailouts.

Congress has made us serfs. We will be working to pay government and the Federal Reserve as they layer more and more restrictions on the citizens. WE will be regulated to utilize the resources under governmental control at the price/fee/tax decreed by whatever passes as a Congress.

As to government "creating" jobs. Ignoring the fraud, waste and mismanagement inherent in government, if they were to create my job for someone, they would first have to destroy MY JOB. Government creation of jobs is a negative game...more jobs are lost as jobs are "created". And government created jobs are one of two types...growth of government or private, TEMPORARY work. You get a permanent government worker doing my job at a pay rate that is half to two thirds more than what I was making (funded by you the taxpayer) or you get someone working at what government determines is a "fair wage" for a while, then they go back to unemployment.

We are being fed lies from government, from banks, from Wall Street, from media, from education and even worse, we're not provided the other side of the arguments unless we take the individual initiative to read the foreign press, alternative websites, or financial journals.

We have an economy that is pure smoke and mirrors. We have millions of unemployed fellow citizens with no benefits, no home, no credit, no future and they have been model citizens so far. There haven't been raging riots, no roaming scavengers combing neighborhoods, and little, if any, news on their actual plight. We hear limited news about Obamaville's (or for the other side, call them Bushville's) but not any stories on how they are suddenly organized or how day to day life is met (unless you happen to read Al Jazeera which had a pretty good series of articles on it). What we get is American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, talking bobble heads and other crap.

We're in the denial stage of national death.

  • 4 votes
#3.2 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 5:15 AM EDT
TiG.

Old

Excellent post. Unfortunately I do not see any point where I can provide softening comments.

To get out of this three things must happen. First fiscal responsibility - government spending needs to be managed to the point where we are starting to pay off debt and that largely means streamlining operations and making better use of the same more - being more effective. Second, we need to clean up the law (regulations) to do what law is supposed to do - discourage bad practices. In this case the bad practices in question are those carried out by the financial industry (lending, derivatives, insurance). Third we need to expand the economy. This translates into an energized private sector that is convinced of a profit opportunity and is pursuing it. Before we even have a hope of a decent economy we need to dramatically lessen the uncertainty and unfreeze the holding pattern uncertainty brings on. November might help a little simply by imposing some initial gridlock (lessening the 'what next?' fear). But that must be followed by sensible policy that the private sector (businesses and consumers) can have faith in.

The key (and the hardest part) is to truly encouragethe growth of this economy. Government can (in theory) adjust its regulatory practices to remove pointless / burdensome regulation (a true regulation overhaul). It can knock down barriers that are dissuading private sector growth (trade, lending, taxes). Essentially this means government and business working together in a productive, responsible fashion as opposed to the under-the-cover flow of money, influence and favor that permeates the relationship. With the level of corruption in the public and private sectors and the avenues of access right now it is hard to imagine how this might happen.

Are we screwed?

  • 3 votes
#3.3 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 9:36 AM EDT
OldPhartbsa

TiG: Are we screwed?

Unfortunately, we have some very bitter medicine to swallow. "Screwed" has a somewhat pleasant connotation, think along a more violent line.

  • 2 votes
#3.4 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 10:41 AM EDT
TiG.

Old

... think along a more violent line.

I am.

  • 1 vote
#3.5 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 10:55 AM EDT
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